242 replies to this topic

[Iron Riding Cowboy]

why are we not getting this reseen marauder... i understand why we are not going to get the unseen because of HG... But is this why we have reseen so we can have them ?



and it looks very different from the original



and yet looks rely close to the king crab. Chang the name to Mad Crab so HG will not pick up on it and give it the claws



the 75 ton Mad Crab come on PGI make it happen

Edited by Iron Riding Cowboy, 27 September 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[Squally160]

brb, changing my pants.

[Seraphic Law]

During the last pod cast, Russ said because they weren't sure they would be clear from lawsuits.
But don't they have a legal department to look and check these things?

Edited by Seraphic Law, 27 September 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Scratx]

Seraphic Law, on 27 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

During the last pod cast, Russ said because they weren't sure they would be clear from lawsuits.
But don't they have a legal department to look and check these things?

They definitely must have at least a lawyer on call, and that's probably what he/they is telling them.

[Tezcatli]

Scratx, on 27 September 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

They definitely must have at least a lawyer on call, and that's probably what he/they is telling them.

Yeah. It's not like they're Blizzard-Activision which could probably threaten HG with a costly law suite win or lose.

[Seraphic Law]

Well maybe someone needs to finally stand up to HarmonyGold and put them in their place.
Their squatting on that Macross IP. They only own the one Macross series not the entire IP.

Edited by Seraphic Law, 27 September 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Milocinia]

A much talked about subject over the last couple of years.

To be totally honest, as much as I love and adore the Marauder so much, it's just not quite dog eared enough to fit into the Inner Sphere way. This is something that's always bugged me about the Marauder whether you want to consider it LosTech, Star League or whatever, it's just not Inner Sphere. Maybe this is why we love the Marauder so much, because it's a thing of beauty nestled in the middle of a pile of scrap iron?

Now the Marauder IIC however...

Sorry, geek bone-er (wth filter...)

Edited by Kyocera, 27 September 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[Seraphic Law]

Forget that 85Ton IIC version, what about the 100Ton II version? =D

[OznerpaG]

the next time PGI needs to razzle-dazzle us costumers for cash, you better believe they'l look into the reseen

right now though, they got lots of razzle-dazzle to throw in our face so they ain't thinking about it

[Milocinia]

Seraphic Law, on 27 September 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Forget that 85Ton IIC version, what about the 100Ton II version? =D

I would have gone with the II but it's that Inner Sphere thing that bugs me again. It's just too much sexy metal for the IS.

[Project_Mercy]

It's a copout with the marauder and warhammer.

harmony gold doesn't own rights to Warhammer or Marauder (or rifleman, etc), They own rights to the Officer's Battlepod, Destroids, etc. When they look the same, they have copyright on the images. But if they do not look the same, they have no basis for litigation.

I find it exceedingly unlikely that Alex couldn't draw up a marauder or warhammer that kept the concept and hardpoints the same and still looked awesome. If anything egg-shaped with arms hung down was able to be sued by HG, then the Timberwolf would be liable, and basically 30% of every mecha anime in the history of ever.

Edited by Wraeththix Constantine, 27 September 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[BumbleBee]

I'd love to see it in game too, but a lot of the "Old Guard" (a very vocal minority) will not accept anything that isnt "the original" and the screams and tears that will ensue would be like nothing you have ever witnessed before.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Those renders are beautiful.

Gimme!
Now!
Like NOW NOW!

[IceSerpent]

BumbleBee, on 27 September 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

I'd love to see it in game too, but a lot of the "Old Guard" (a very vocal minority) will not accept anything that isnt "the original" and the screams and tears that will ensue would be like nothing you have ever witnessed before.

"Old Guard" are the only people who even know what a Marauder is, you can easily fool the rest of the playerbase by creating an oversized Shadow Hawk and naming it "Marauder". The big question is if it's not an original, why bother with it at all?

By the way, "reseen" Marauder is very ugly:

[Joe Mallad]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 27 September 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

It's a copout with the marauder and warhammer.

harmony gold doesn't own rights to Warhammer or Marauder (or rifleman, etc), They own rights to the Officer's Battlepod, Destroids, etc. When they look the same, they have copyright on the images. But if they do not look the same, they have no basis for litigation.

I find it exceedingly unlikely that Alex couldn't draw up a marauder or warhammer that kept the concept and hardpoints the same and still looked awesome. If anything egg-shaped with arms hung down was able to be sued by HG, then the Timberwolf would be liable, and basically 30% of every mecha anime in the history of ever.

THIS! Besides, do people forget why in cannon lore, the IS gave the Madcat its name the first time one was seen on the battlefield? Our IS computer mech recognition software could not make out the Timberwolf and the program itself was not sure if the Timberwolf was a Marauder or a Catapult so our mech pilots started calling the Timberwolf the Mad-Cat. And in lore, the Timberwolf/Madcat was designed from that of Marauders and Catapults that Kerensky took with him when he left the IS.

So if they (PGI) can re-design the Timberwolf and Catapults as they have, Im sure a new re-re-designed Marauder could easily be done. As you said, HG owns the rights to the Officer's Battle Pod design and "Name" but they do not own the rights to the Marauder "Name" or a new re-imaging of it if PGI desired to do so. The same can be said for the Warhammer, Riflemen and any of the others.

[Texugo87]

The problem with the Marauder and other unseen that were derived from HG is that the current license holder and or owner of the rights to that material has proven quite litigious in the past. The worry is that introducing these mechs could go something like this:

1. PGI invests time and money into creating unseen/reseen mechs in game; player base gets excited.
2. HG etc. file a claim against PGI for infringing their copyrighted property.
3. HG gets an interim order which prevents PGI from using the contested property, mechs are pulled from player accounts, ect. Players get upset.
4. Several years of negotiations and procedural wrangling take place, ultimately they either settle out of court (which may or may not allow them to continue using the concerned property), or HG probably loses if it does go to court; even with a costs award PGI is still out of pocket for a good chunk of their legal fees and who knows if they still even hold the licence for BT material by the time this is all resolved.

Given the breadth of the BT universe, it just isn't worth touching this content. As cool as they are the chance of a major headache is too much, even defending a frivolous claim is expensive, stressful, and time consuming.

As much as I would love to have this content in game it probably isn't going to happen, and I understand why.

Edited by cjmurphy87, 27 September 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Texugo87]

Wraeththix Constantine, on 27 September 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

It's a copout with the marauder and warhammer.

harmony gold doesn't own rights to Warhammer or Marauder (or rifleman, etc), They own rights to the Officer's Battlepod, Destroids, etc. When they look the same, they have copyright on the images. But if they do not look the same, they have no basis for litigation.

I find it exceedingly unlikely that Alex couldn't draw up a marauder or warhammer that kept the concept and hardpoints the same and still looked awesome. If anything egg-shaped with arms hung down was able to be sued by HG, then the Timberwolf would be liable, and basically 30% of every mecha anime in the history of ever.

The problem is that HG would claim that the new artwork was derivative of their IP. Even though they would probably lose it would still be expensive for PGI and take years to resolve.

Unless PGI reached out to HG in advance, and got a favorable response from them (which is unlikely given the previous litigation around this IP), it's unfortunately prudent not to put these mechs into the game. I wouldn't be surprised if there hadn't already been some discussions between PGI and whoever holds the HG rights at present.

Edited by cjmurphy87, 27 September 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Impyrium]

I'd be worried that the pictures that the OP posted would be dangerously too close to the original designs, even though being quite different. Considering what's happened in the past, I can imagine HG kicking up a hissy fit if PGI were to advertise them.

Still, those particular designs are still close enough that I'd accept it as the 'new' Marauder. On the other hand, the reseen that Ice posted is terrible and may as well be an entirely different 'Mech.

One can always keep their hopes up, though:

Edited by AUSwarrior24, 27 September 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

cjmurphy87, on 27 September 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

The problem with the Marauder and other unseen that were derived from HG is that the current license holder and or owner of the rights to that material has proven quite litigious in the past. The worry is that introducing these mechs could go something like this:

1. PGI invests time and money into creating unseen/reseen mechs in game; player base gets excited.
2. HG etc. file a claim against PGI for infringing their copyrighted property.
3. HG gets an interim order which prevents PGI from using the contested property, mechs are pulled from player accounts, ect. Players get upset.
4. Several years of negotiations and procedural wrangling take place, ultimately they either settle out of court (which may or may not allow them to continue using the concerned property), or HG probably loses if it does go to court; even with a costs award PGI is still out of pocket for a good chunk of their legal fees and who knows if they still even hold the licence for BT material by the time this is all resolved.

Given the breadth of the BT universe, it just isn't worth touching this content. As cool as they are the chance of a major headache is too much, even defending a frivolous claim is expensive, stressful, and time consuming.

As much as I would love to have this content in game it probably isn't going to happen, and I understand why.

and most understand this. But look at the other Un-seen Re-seen mechs that we just got (Phoenix Mech). Yeah PGI has gotten the rights to use the Crusher Joe Mechs... Battle Master, Locust, Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, Griffon and Thunderbolt. And yeah they dont have to worry about litigation. But what did PGI do anyway? They still re-designed each of these mechs based off of their Phoenix Mech profiles and they all still came out IMO better looking than the original designs that they could legally use. PGI has the rights to do any of the Phoenix mechs... so that means the Marauder and Marauder 2 and 2C, as well as the Riflemen mechs and Warhammer mechs and Archer mechs, can all be done and added based off of the Phoenix Mech art. And PGI can re-design them in their own image just like they did with every other mech in this game.

cjmurphy87, on 27 September 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

The problem is that HG would claim that the new artwork was derivative of their IP. Even though they would probably lose it would still be expensive for PGI and take years to resolve.

as i said above, HG cant claim anything if PGI just goes off of the Phoenix Mech Art and re-image the mech as they see fit.

[Redshift2k5]

The non-Harmony Gold unseen were sourced from companies willing to play along and allows use of the mechs.

Redesigns are not enough!